< PreviousModern Drummer August 2022 28 AS : I adore reggae music, and I cherish Carlton’s playing, so this was an opportunity to learn from Carlton. MD : That is a wonderful opportunity to put a legendary drummer under the microscope and really hear what was happening, so tell me what you learned? AS : There were some tracks where he would stick to a part for 8, 10, or 12 bars before he played a fill or did something different. He was just grooving! Then there are other tunes where he is playfully interacting with the rhythm guitar, the bass, and what Bob was singing. In those tunes he was changing what he played every two bars or so. He was literally changing the groove by adding a little extra hi hat or bass drum every two bars or so. It was fascinating how he approached different songs. MD: Was it your job to play exactly what he played? AS : Yes. MD : Did you transcribe the parts? AS: No, I did it on ProTools 4, 8, 12 or 16 bars at a time. There were a few tunes that I could remember an entire verse or chorus, but most of it was done 4 or 8 bars at a time. I would have 8 bar run-ups, and then drop in 8 bars, and have to do the same thing for the next 8 bars because what he was playing was so complex and crazy. Originally, they were going to layer my playing on top of Carlton’s to just get a better sound, and they might have actually done that on a few tracks. It was just a drum sound and sonic control thing. But when they heard a few of those tracks they figured that my parts were good enough to stand on their own. The producer (Nick Patrick) says I am actually credited as playing with Bob Marley on the recording, which is just insanity to me! At first, I wasn’t sure if I should even do the project, I knew I could get a bit of flack for it. But then I just viewed it as a job for me as a musician, I relished the challenge, but I adore that music. In the end I figured that if I didn’t do it, someone else could come along and possibly really mess it up, so at least I knew that I was going to approach it with the utmost respect. I know I am a white guy from England playing reggae music, but I really wanted to do this project correctly! So for advice I called a bass player friend named Winston Blissett, who is actually the bassist from Massive Attack that I mentioned earlier, because he and I used to play reggae music all of the time. MD : What else did you learn from your microscopic reggae education from the master? AS : The biggest misconception about reggae is that it is laid back, which isn’t true, that’s a big misconception. There are a handful of signature fills which are actually very similar that you have to learn. And the discussion about how there should never be a crash on one is rubbish. It’s great feel music, and one thing is for sure, If you sit and play along to Bob Marley records, it isn’t going to do you or your playing any harm whatsoever! That in-between straight and swung groove will always help your playing, and it’s in the Marley music in bucketloads! Some of Carlton’s fills will make you laugh out loud, because you are left wondering, how did THAT work? You can’t transcribe it. I just love the music, and that’s really all you can do. MD : Again, like Pino said, “It’s all music.” AS: To be the same drummer that played on that Vex Red record in 2001 and to play on this Bob Marley record today is just so exciting for me. I really enjoy the fact that they are so completely different, and yet they are both my drumming style and approach. MD : I know you are a bit of a drum geek, so let’s drum geek out a bit about gear. The set that you are using with Tori is beautiful and it sounds great. What are you using up there? AS: Let’s start with the snares. Gretsch knew that I had a longtime love of Purpleheart wood, and they made me a prototype several years ago. MD: What is it about Purpleheart? AS : Purpleheart has some great low end, but here’s the whole story… In the 80s and 90s Brady drums was making Stave drums out of Jarrah. I think Steve Jordan was playing a 7x12 Jarrah Brady on the David Sanborn record called Upfront and on the Keith Richards record Main Offender. I loved those records, and Steve has such a great sound. Unfortunately, I could never afford one of those drums, they were just too expensive. There was a British drum manufacturer that made block style shelled drums that were similar to Brady’s at a quarter of the price. They made me a 7x12 block Purpleheart drum. It’s a drum I used a lot. If you detune it a bit and dampen it a little, it sounds like a medium tuned 14" drum, but with something “extra.” I used that drum early on with the bands Faithless and MJ Cole. Producers would ask for the drum I played on the Paul Jackson Jr album, and Paul asked for that sound too. At that same time I was using a detuned sound on pop records because of how the frequency of the drum sits below the vocals. It occupies a nice sonic position in a track that is above the bass drum but below the vocals. A snare drum that is tuned higher can interfere with the vocals, David PhilipsAugust 2022 Modern Drummer 29 but a detuned drum just sits perfectly within the mix. I used the Purpleheart again with Jeff Lorber. Vinnie Colaiuta and Gary Novak were also on that record, but that drum along with the detuned sound, definitely became part of my sound, and I fell in love with it. Gretsch made me a 7x12 Purpleheart ply drum without my even asking. When I got the drum, I loved it. It’s different from the block sound, which is very compressed and short. My signature 7x12 Purpleheart ply drum has even more bottom end and more sustain than the original block drum, and I just love it! With Tori, I am using that drum as my main snare and it sounds fabulous. I used that drum with guitarist Ariel Posen and Cory Wong on the track called “Spare Tire” and it is perfect. MD : What is the rest of the kit with Tori? AS: Gretsch built me a replica of my Broadkaster studio kit in Black Satin Flame that is a 10" rack tom, 13" and 16" floor toms, a 14x22 main kick and a 16x20 second kick. The second kick is tuned wide open with no hole in the front head and no muffling. The snare on my left is my 1950s 4x14 Max Roach signature snare tuned down and swampy. Lucas Gretsch has nicknamed that drum “Phat Max.” MD: I just had this conversation with Peter Erskine, but aren’t 4" and 4.5" snares the greatest? AS : Here is the great things about drum magazines. I remember reading an old interview with JR Robinson when he talked about Rufus and Chaka Khan, and he mentioned 4" drums being really fat. I remember thinking that was interesting. If you detune a deep drum, you miss the midrange and the high end. But if you detune a 4" drum a bit you get the low end and a very nice high end as well. It’s actually very close to the original Linn drum snare sound. The 4" Max Roach drums are the best ones that I have found. MD : You are preaching to the choir, I have several 4” and 4.5" snares. OK, we have entered the snare drum world, what other snares do you love? AS : I have a beautiful Joe Montineri snare 4x14 in Copper glitter, I have quite a few vintage round badge Gretsch’s that are the greatest hip hop snares when they’re cranked up. I have a 1970’s COB 4160, a 1969 Acrolite which I love, a 1976 6.5 Supraphonic which is a very versatile drum. I have a Yamaha Maple Absolute that has been on tons of sessions (including the Adele sessions) so that drum isn’t going anywhere. Sugar Percussion made me a drum too. There are some brilliant custom drum makers out there. MD: Do you have any 15’s? AS: I also have a 4x15 snare made by Gary Noonan, again because JR used to use 15’s. I’m not a “collector,” I have never gone out of my way to pursue a specific drum. I’ve been playing drums for over 40 years, and if you are into gear (like many of us are,) you will accumulate a decent amount of good sounding drums (or cymbals) that you acquire over the years, just because they sound good. MD : I said those exact words to someone yesterday. AS: I have 10 or 12 drum kits and 50 or so snares, and I am nowhere near someone like Matt Chamberlain who I am told has hundreds of sets and snares. MD: So what about sets? AS : I have four Broadkaster sets, a 1963 Round Badge Gretsch, 1965 Maple Classic Ludwig, and a Yamaha Club Custom and a few other Yamaha’s from my time with them. I still have a Sakae Trilogy kit from my short time with them. Unfortunately, I don’t have my original Premier kit. That was 1980s single headed Olympic kit that sounded great. MD : You are talking to a Gretsch guy, I have a completely tweaked Gretsch Black Nitron shell pack in all the sizes. We are all familiar with “That Great Gretsch Sound” What do you think is the “thing” with Gretsch’s, why do they sound so great? AS : I have had my 1963 Round Badge’s in 20, 12, 16 since I was 23 years old, and I have used them on a lot of records. Enrique Iglesias, Cher, all five James Morrison records I played on, and many more. Although I’ve had relationships with other manufacturers, and no matter what other kits I was playing live, that kit has made most of the records. When I was with Yamaha, and they changed their factory and Hagi left, us European drummers weren’t made aware of the change, and we felt left in the dark. So I went with Sakae, they were making a Maple Poplar Maple shell and I love that sound from my years of playing Gretsch. When Sakae folded, it coincided with DW buying Gretsch, and making the Maple Poplar Maple Broadkasters again. When I heard that I was sold, that’s why I am finally with Gretsch, and Gretsch is at the forefront of the drum world yet again. I adore my new Broadkaster kits and my DW hardware and pedals. MD : Are you as much of a cymbal nut as you are a drum nut? AS: I have always played Zildjian, I had a few Paiste’s when I was a kid because of Stewart Copeland, Jeff, and Bonham. But Zildjian became part of my sound. I have old K’s, old A’s, and lots of new Zildjians. I have a set of 1969 14" A hats that I have used on an endless number of sessions. There is a guy at Zildjian who says they’re the best sounding hi hats in the world. The new set of 14’s that I have with Tori are as close as you can get to the old ones. I love the new FX Raw Crashes that Zildjian is making. I have a 1987 K ride that is beautiful. I have Kerope’s and Constantinolple’s, I mix and match everything. I have a lot of cymbals lying around in my studio. I can go from vintage sounds to modern sounds to extra dry sounds and everything in between. MD : What are the cymbals on stage with Tori? AS: The hats are the 14" new vintage A New Beats, a 6" A Splash and a 10" Sweet K Splash, a Custom Dry 10" Splash, and 18" Kerope. My main ride is a 22" Overhammered Constantinople that I occasionally swap out for a 22" Medium Low, to my right I have a 20" Staccato Ride that is a great crash or ride. MD: I know you must have a lot of little toys and sounds that you are using to cop Matt’s approach, is there anything that you would like to mention? AS: When I was in New York, I went to a shop called the Music Inn, the place is straight out of Harry Potter. In the basement they have David PhilipsModern Drummer August 2022 30 tons of old stuff, and I bought a bunch of shakers and bells etc. I am attaching them to my drums and cymbals. They create great textures. I learned this from Mark Gulianna. MD : What is the strangest thing that you have ever done to a drum or a cymbal to get a certain sound? AS : What a great question! I tape cymbals and drums but that’s not strange. People see me using tape on drums and cymbals and some complain. But if Trevor Horn asks me to dampen or tape up a drum or a cymbal, I’ll put a dead cat on it if needed to make him happy. I will do anything to get the sound that people want. I have strapped a tambourine to the front head of my 20” bass drum which I have never seen someone do, so that’s pretty strange (I guess.) MD : Let’s talk about your studio, what is some of your favorite recording gear? AS : I created my studio 10 years ago to store my gear and maybe do a bit of practicing. I had no aspirations of it becoming a recording studio really. After I did that, a producer friend of mine asked me what the room sounded like. I had no idea. He told me to put a mic up and record into Garage Band. He listened to the file and said the room sounded good, why don’t you set it up to record? There are two ways to do that. One way is to slowly buy some mics, an interface, and so on, and build it up slowly. The other way is to jump in with both feet, invest a serious sum of money into speakers, ProTools, interfaces, mics, stands, cables, and spend some time learning ProTools. That’s what I did. At the time, the only thing I knew about was microphones. Like all drummers who do sessions, you see the same microphones every day and on most sessions. In the UK you see Coles ribbon mics on almost every session. Now you see them all over the globe. I must admit that I have had a lot of help from my producer friends along the way. There was a four-year period when I barely even played the drums, I just recorded, listened, and learned in my studio. After 10 years of work, my engineering skills have gotten to a good place. I did a Seal record, and a Rod Stewart track with Trevor Horn and he liked the final drum tracks, I knew that I was doing something right, and I have built and grown from there. I use Universal Audio interfaces, I have some Neve stuff and Neuman stuff as well. I do have some old outboard gear like old compressors and a Roland Space Echo. I keep my Broadcasters always mic’d up in a modern way at the studio, and I also have my old Ludwig’s mic’d up at all times with a really old school approach. I like an original D19 hanging above the kit and a U47 on the bass drum. MD : How does the recording process help someone hone their craft as a drummer? AS : Great question! When you record yourself, and listen back, and re-record and listen back, and edit your part in your mind for the next take, you develop a consistency. The process of recording and going into the control room and listening back countless times is how so many of our heroes like Steve Gadd or Jeff Porcaro (for instance) have developed their professional consistency. That means the way you play your hi hats, the way you play your bass drum, making your drumset sounds like a single instrument, and playing consistent back beats. Making sure your hi hat and snare drum drop at the same time is a big part of it too. That might sound very basic, but making sure everything lines up is hugely important, it creates a much better sound and performance on the drums. MD: When you are recording in your studio, and you play a first take, what are you listening to when you listen back? AS: The good thing about remote recording is that I get much more time to listen to a song beforehand and to listen to each take than I do on a traditional recording session. I usually get a final take in five or less passes. There are the occasional mythical one take wonders, but I think those are largely a myth. If I am recording a complete song, I will figure out what fills work within the first few takes, but I still try to do complete takes. I can drop in anything, which is fine. But I still try to get complete takes. MD : What is the percentage of recording work that you are doing in your studio vs. recording away from home in bigger commercial studios? AS : Since the pandemic, it’s about 100% in my home studio. When I get home, I am starting a new Cher record in my studio. Drum sessions can be an expensive endeavor in a big studio, and recording budgets have gotten smaller, and unfortunately a lot of the bigger studios have closed. Therefore, drummers like me, Aaron Sterling, and others have come along and offered our services by way of our home studios. There are downsides. I can’t interact with the producer or the artist like I would if we were all together on a studio session. And I am stuck with the sounds that are on the tracks that they send, I can’t really change them, which can get a bit annoying sometimes. But I love the process and the experimentation of recording. MD : When you are recording tracks, how do you know when a drum track is done? AS: Most times the producer will let you know when they are happy. If you can stand back and listen to a track with the greater musical purpose in mind, you can tell when you have gotten to a good place with the song. The good thing about working remotely is that I can completely immerse myself in a track. I can make sure the sound and the feel are perfect before I send the producer the final track. MD : You have mentioned some great Steve Jordan recordings already, what are some of your other favorite records? AS: I am a Stewart Copeland nut and through Trevor we have become friends. Stewart is on my EP, so I love any Police records. But I must say, Stewart is a comet of a person, he is a character and has enough energy to run a small country. It no surprise that when he plays the drums, “hey presto” (!) that’s how he sounds, and I love him for that. Mark Gulianna is a real character too, Americans would call him “kooky,” and that could possibly apply to how he plays the drums. He is inquisitive and exploring as a person and as a musician. And he has a great sense of humour. That all comes across in his playing. The first Chaka Khan record with Steve Ferrone is one of my favorite records ever. Steve immersed himself in American groove drumming, and he is a beaming light of groove. He is a reliable, dependable bloke, and (of course) that’s how he sounds. The later Average White band records are amazing, and I love his playing with Tom Petty. I really liked his playing with Clapton too. Steve and I have become friends too via Hamish Stuart and Trevor Horn. We shared the drum chair on a Rod Stewart album. Speaking of Clapton, I have been a Clapton fan for a long time. I The good thing about remote recording is that I get much more time to listen to a song beforehand and to listen to each take than I do on a traditional recording session.August 2022 Modern Drummer 31 have seen him with Andy Newmark, Ferrone, Gadd, Steve Jordan. But I also saw Richie Hayward with Clapton, I think he did three shows with Eric, and it was amazing. You would imagine that would be a match made in heaven, but I actually think that Richie was (possibly) even too greasy for Eric. I wish we heard more about Richie because his playing really touches me. The way Richie sat between swing and straight. The way that he plays Little Feat’s “Long Distance Love” gets me every time. MD : Again, you are preaching to the choir, he is one of my favorite drummers ever. AS: Of course, everything that Purdie does is constantly on my radar, especially the Aretha stuff. I adore Keith Moon, Ringo and Charlie Watts too. Of course, Jeff Porcaro, I remember hearing “Rosanna” for the first time when I was 13, and no one I knew in England could explain what he was playing. MD : Speaking of Richie and half-time shuffles, check out “Cadillac Hotel,” (especially the live version) it’s one of the best half-time shuffles EVER! What are some of your favorite Gadd recordings other than the obvious Chick Corea and Paul Simon recordings? AS: There are a few Bob James records that he is on that I love, and that Freddie Hubbard Windjammer record that he split with Andy Newmark. Of course, I love his Ricky Lee Jones stuff too. He sounds great on some of the Clapton stuff, and I love the Kate Bush record Fifty Words for Snow. Steve and I talked recently on the phone, and I hope to see him soon in London. I have to mention Andy Newmark again. He is originally from Bermuda, and after he and Clapton parted ways, Andy went back to Bermuda and ran a club. When I was playing with Squeeze in 1998, we played at his club for a week, and it turned out that he had worked with Squeeze too. When he moved back to the UK, he started doing The Lion King, and he wanted me to be his sub, but I had to turn him down because my reading just wasn’t good enough. Later on, he recommended me for a Marianne Faithful tour. I love his playing on John and Yoko’s Double Fantasy, Sly and the Family Stone’s Fresh, Roxy Music’s Avalon. There is a Bob James record that Andy and Gadd did. It’s hard to tell them apart at times. Manu Katche’ is a big influence, and I think everything that he has played on is magical. The fluidity of Omar Hakim changed my whole life. Omar came to see me play with Tori in Brooklyn recently. Keith Carlock has been a fantastic support too. I can’t not mention David Garibaldi who is a constant. David has been so incredibly supportive of me, we have become good friends. The original drummer from Level 42 Phil Gould is a dear friend of mine too, he was a major influence and I love his playing. People forget that (like Neil Peart for Rush,) Phil wrote the lyrics for Level 42 songs. Then there’s otherworldly talents of Gary Husband. Henry Spinetti who played a little while with Clapton is fantastic, and I love Dave Mattacks’ work with Fairport Convention. He did a great record with Joan Armatrading too. MD: Let’s conclude by talking about social media a bit. I must admit, because of your recent high exposure on social media I thought that you were much younger. AS : You’re not the first to think that. The truth is that a drummer in his 50s really shouldn’t be messing around on social media platforms that are primarily for teenagers. I have been on Instagram for 10 years, I started posting there to document the creation of my studio 10 years ago. I think my popularity there might have grown because I was one of the first guys to make my Instagram recordings with a professional recording setup, instead of just an iphone. But I enjoy the (mainly) positive exchange of ideas and opinions on Instagram and now even TikTok. If I can draw someone’s attention to Richie Hayward, Steve Ferrone, Barrimore Barlow, or Andy Newmark etc on social media (or in Modern Drummer,) and open the door to a whole new world of drumming for younger drummers, I will. I feel like that is part of my responsibility as a musician. MD : Doesn’t the negative aspect of social media ever get to you? AS: I spent seven years playing on The Voice, there is a lot of pressure playing on TV, it’s a pressure cooker. I have played in front of most of my drumming heroes, and with some of my musical heroes. If I post something on social media and someone doesn’t like it, that’s fine. People can be judgmental, everybody has an opinion, that’s fine. When I play in any context, I am going to give everything I can. That is me being me. If someone doesn’t like that, that’s a shame, but I’m still going to do it. I try to look at the positive side of any criticism that I get, but when Hans Zimmer or Abe Laboriel or Stewart Copeland or Omar Hakim likes what I am doing that’s really all that matters. If some guy in his bedroom chooses to be negative, that really doesn’t bother me because the people that I love and respect the most seem to like what I’m doing. I have about a quarter of a million followers on Instagram, 100,000 on Facebook, and now (hilariously) 40,000 on TikTok. When I post on social media, I post about things that I like, things that I am interested in, and things that I find interesting. People ask me who my “social media manager” is, and I just laugh. That’s hilarious! I post about things that I honestly and sincerely care about, and that’s it. MD : It’s amazing how that works, honesty and sincerity… What a concept. Check out Ash’s Modern Drummer profile page at moderndrummer.comModern Drummer August 2022 32 Tim Northup: The Northup Drum Museum, Come on in and PLAY! By Mark Griffith D uring my years of touring, I have been to just about every musical museum in the world, and I know (and respect) people who collect things. But the one thing I have never liked about either, is the tendency to keep museum items and collections behind a glass shield or a velvet rope, and for collectors to discourage or not allow people to use and interact with their collections. The Northup Drum Museum is NOT that type of museum, and Tim Northup is not that type of collector. Let’s face it, drums are created to be played with sticks and brushes, they aren’t fragile. For those of us who feel a little deeper about such things, we might say that drums have “souls” and their reason for existence is to be played and to make a joyful noise. Personally, when I see an old instrument, I want to hear it and I want to play it. I want to hear its personality. Lucky to say, I was in the right place, and Tim Northup agrees. Tim Northup is not your typical drum collector, and this is NOT your typical museum. The vintage sticks and brushes that sit on every drumset he displays, are not just there for show. Tim encourages everyone to sit down and play every instrument at the Northup Drum Museum. In a typical museum, if something is in a glass case, it’s for display purposes only, but not here! Tim is actually eager to pull any of his drums off of the shelf for any musician to play and explore. His 30 (or so) drum sets sit in a wide open (and fantastic sounding) showroom in Oneonta, New York just waiting to be played by the next visitor. His museum is a very special place that every drummer young and old, beginner or professional, unknown or legendary, should visit. Tim Northup started as a drummer, he was a music industry minor and an art history major in college at the State College of New York in Oneonta, and now he is a drummer, museum curator, instrument collector, and an antique and art dealer. His knowledge of the antique and art world is captivating. However, somewhere during his journey of buying and selling antiques and art, his life as a musician and an antique dealer happily intersected. Tim was always intrigued by the old hand painted drumheads of the early 1900s and saw many in his travels. He bought these unique pieces of American art. But after a while he began to look behind the glowing bass drum heads that excited him. Behind those heads were the drums of the 1920s and 30s, and they really began to speak to him. 20 years ago, his love for the unique instruments of musical days gone by compelled him to start buying and restoring old drums. After all, when he bought those beautiful drum heads, he got the drums too. After 10 years of learning about and restoring drums, Tim had a chance encounter with a giant vintage drum collection that was for sale, and he jumped in. He couldn’t resist their beauty, allure, and place within American History. That’s where I began my fascinating day at the happiest place on earth (sorry Disneyland!) David PhilipsAugust 2022 Modern Drummer 33 MD : How did this whole collection and museum begin? TN: I always loved the look of the old hand-painted drumheads from an artistic perspective. I am an antiques and art dealer, restoration specialist, but I also design and create lighting. When I found those heads, I enjoyed restoring the lighting that went inside the bass drums and really made the drumsets come to life. The story behind hand-painted drumheads is fascinating. From about 1925 until 1940 you could order your drumsets to come with a hand painted bass drum head. It was an additional 10 to 15 dollars when you ordered a new set from Ludwig, Leedy, or Slingerland. The early Ludwig painted heads cracked because (as we all know) calfskin moves with the weather. Humidity made them slunk, and dryness made them expand. Early on, the Ludwig painters used long brush strokes and their paintings would eventually crack. The drumhead painters had to learn to Stipple Paint like French artist George Seurat. When you Stipple Paint, you are dotting the head (or canvas) with dots of paint instead of brush strokes. The painters at Leedy got really good at Stipple painting, so the hand painted Leedy heads tend to survive the best. I actually have an old picture of an artist at the Leedy factory Stipple Painting with a stack of bass drum heads next to him. MD : Was it almost an impressionistic way of painting? TN : Yes it was an impressionistic way of painting to create a realistic image. When you ordered your set, you could pick the scene that you wanted on your head. The popular scenes were a Dutch windmill, a boat in a lake, mountain scenes and landscapes, log cabins in the woods, and Moose and different animals. Later, there were also art-deco style heads with nude dancers, butterfly girls, and the spider web girl patterns However, as soon as Gene Krupa came along, he stripped away all of the gadgets from the drumsets, and he started using his monogrammed shield on his front bass drum head. The tradition 1920s Ludwig Tango trap set with a version of Moonlight Silhouette head, nickel over brass snare drum, Charleston pedal. 1920s Ludwig Niagara Falls trap set with pioneer nickel snare drum, China tom, and lowboy.Modern Drummer August 2022 34 of hand painted bass drum heads was over. But there was a good 15-year period when there were a lot of hand painted drums heads being made. MD : So when did this love of hand painted drum heads, and minor obsession with 1920s drums become a museum? How do you find and acquire most of your items. TN : I like to buy collections. I started a Facebook group based around 1920s drums, painted heads, and sound effects. I invited a few friends that I had made in the collector’s world, and we are now over 2,000 members strong. It is one of the of the most active drum groups on Facebook. I have established some very good friends along the way, who are also some of the sources for finding rare and vintage items for the museum. Joe Barthlette from Wood and Weather Drum Shop is a good friend, as is Richard King who is the “hardware guy” for vintage drums, have both found some of my rarest items for me. Drum shows, online auctions, and developing relationships with good drum dealers is the best way to find vintage drums. MD: I know it’s not about the number of sets that you have, but how many sets and snares do you have here? TN : I haven’t counted recently, I think there are 30 or so sets, over 100 snares, and maybe 200 Zildjian cymbals? I have bought most of what I have in the last 20 years, when I do something, I go all out. I have tried to seek out the rarest examples, and the finest examples that I can afford. MD: That is the great thing about this place, who wants to look at an old slide- whistle, or train effect box. Those instruments, and the drums are meant to be heard and played! TN : I already had four or five 1920s sets, and I loved all of the musical gadgets, traps, and sound effects that accompanied those sets: the temple blocks, the ratchets, the whistles, etc. However, after I bought a huge collection of drums, I moved everything into my antique gallery. Soon there just wasn’t enough room for the antiques, so I moved the antiques to the second floor of my gallery and the main floor became a drum showroom for my collection. The building that houses this magnificent collection is actually my grandparent’s restored 1800’s dairy barn, the farmhouse and barn have been in the family for 80 years. I had a chance encounter with Steve Smith and I happened to tell him about my collection and he wanted to see all of the drums. I organized and displayed everything that I had because Steve was coming to the showroom. While he was here, he played everything, and we started a nice friendship. When he was leaving, he signed a drumhead for me, and wrote that I had a “great museum!” I hadn’t ever considered that I had a museum worth of old drums and percussion instruments, but he was right! I started to display everything with a more museum approach and created some educational background leaflets about each kit, I changed the name of my FaceBook page, and people started to come to visit. When people started to visit, I encouraged everyone to play the drums and everything that is here. Everything here is tuned and ready to play, most of the drums have period correct calf heads, and everything is ready to go. I actually had Pete Jarvis and the New Jersey Percussion Ensemble here a while back and they did a recording here using eight different snare drums and a lot of the other instruments that I have. Pete is a musical genius. He actually wrote some pieces of music just for the instruments at the museum. They actually turned the museum into a recording studio (because it sounds so good in here) and they did a record right here. When I have college and high school music students come through, they have never seen of any of these old instruments, let alone actually heard them. So young drummers can get a real education here too. MD : I am happily surprised by the fact that you encourage everyone to play the drums in the museum. That’s what makes you different. Who has been here to see and play your drums? TN : Arthur Vint from Vince Giordano and the Nighthawks came up and played everything, we had a great time. Michael Windish, drummer for Chubby Checker, Professional jazz drummer Bob Meyer and Alan “Sticky” Wickett from London and I have done some videos together on sound effects, and he loves the museum. And of course Steve Smith has been in a few times and he loves to come and actually play in the style of the vintage drums. Steve has filmed several videos here at the museum playing these vintage drum sets. Playing in the style of the 1920s and 30s isn’t as simple as it seems. You were really playing in that style when you were playing my sets. MD: How can you not? Playing these drums is fascinating because you hardly have to hit them, they just sing. You don’t have to play hard, and you don’t have to pull the sound out of them. They respond to the lightest touch. I’ve always been intrigued by the parallels between the drumset and American history. While people have come from around the world to create the melting pot of the United States of America, different instruments have come from around the world to create the drumset. While each separate component of the drumset originated elsewhere, the set of drums was assembled here in roughly 1890. The drumset is believed to be first played by New Orleans drummer Dee Dee Chandler. The drumset is the only instrument created in the US. In my opinion, the drumset IS the United States. By visiting the museum, you can see the evolution of the entire drumset. You can see how it was put together piece by piece Tim and Steve Smith at the museum on his very first visit.August 2022 Modern Drummer 35 starting in around 1890 and progressing through the modern drumsets of today. You even have an actual drum from the Civil War that would pre-date the drumset, and a few other significant drums that correspond to US history too. TN : A customer brought me an attic find drum because she knew I was also a drummer. It is from the Pittsfield Militia and made by the Stevens Drum Company in 1840. It even has the original sticks. You can tell it is a Civil War drum because the owner signed and dated the inside September 1, 1862. That is the actual date that Pittsfield Massachusetts mustered out a militia for a battle in Virginia and North Carolina. That means this drum actually saw battle in the Civil War. The next owner was a military drummer named Corey Thornton who signed and dated the inside of the drum in 1898. The P.G. Lowery Band played in the Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Circus and earlier in the Minstrel shows. Those are important facets of US entertainment. I have his drum here, it is a Leedy 15” 16 lug snare drum. Inside the case was the Ringling Brothers itinerary from 1929. That is a significant drum in drum history and US history. MD: People forget about the importance of the drumming gigs with the circus. I know that Papa Jo Jones played with Ringling Brothers, and there were others. Display case of vintage traps, sound effects, whistles, ratchets, temple blocks, wood blocks, cowbells, and a collection of vintage bass drum pedals. 1951 Slingerland Radio King set with original calf heads! Tim calls this his Gene Krupa style kit. 1968 Slingerland Buddy Rich model kit, original BR music stand, Radio King snare drums, painted head trap kits.Modern Drummer August 2022 36 TN : My museum is based around American drums, a great deal of what I have comes from the time period between 1927 to 1939. What I have started to do is get the old Ludwig, Slingerland, Leedy, and Gretsch catalogs and recreate the pages from the catalog into real life sets. I really enjoy what I call my “Come to Life Catalog Kits.” I go to painstaking lengths to recreate and set up the EXACT kits that were pictured in the old catalogs. I even have a few time- capsule kits that I have bought from drummers’ families. I really enjoy getting the old pictures of the original owners playing their kits and having everything set up exactly as the original owner played it 100 years ago. I have a kit like that from a drummer named Bill Boswell from Pennsylvania, he used that kit to open for Artie Shaw in the 1940s. MD: You have some really rare stuff here. Tell me about your rarest of the rare? TN : The trap table on the Slingerland Glass Glitter kit is the only one of its kind that I know of. No one else has one of those original trap tables. The Ludwig Solo Blocks are almost non-existent outside of here. The W&A double hi hat stand from the 1940s is also very rare. There is actually a picture of Gene Krupa and Avedis Zildjian at the Zildjian factory with one of those double hi hat stands testing out cymbals. Both Krupa and Buddy Rich used Walberg & Auge hi hat stands throughout their careers, and Although Walberg & Auge made most of the old hardware, they also made beautiful drums. I have two Slingerland Black Beauty snares, and there are less than 20 of them in the world. One of mine came from Canada, and one came from Florida but was originally from Syracuse NY. The strange thing is that three of the rarest things that I have came from Syracuse NY. In the 1930’s there must have been a really high-end Slingerland drum dealer around Syracuse NY. The Slingerland Sea Foam Green kit, the Slingerland Green Glass Glitter kit with the trap table, and one of the Black Beauty’s all came from Syracuse. The Duplex afterbeat drum is a cool and rare little drum that has a brush attached. I found a 1940s Leedy Rimshot Gadget that was still in the box. Don McCauley saw it on my website and wanted to get it for Charlie Watts for his birthday. Believe it or not, Charlie didn’t have one, and he loved that type of thing. I wanted to give it to Charlie in person, and because of COVID, that never happened. MD : Charlie would have loved your museum. Can you walk us through the evolution and history of the high hat cymbals and stands that you have here? TN : It all started with the bock-a-da-bocks. That is a hand-held contraption that held two small cymbals that you clapped together by hand or played with a stick. That evolved into the Billy Gladstone designed Gladstone Cymbals that Chick Webb used. They were made by the Frank Wolf company in New York City. Then there were a bunch of bass drum mounted hand cymbals from the 1930s that created a sound that is impossible to reproduce with any modern instruments or hardware. The actual hi hats started with the Charleston pedal. I have a few Ludwig Charleston’s, and I even have a George Stone Charleston, which is probably the only one of its kind. I have several Courtesy Gavin Harrison View from “the driver’s seat” on a vintage 1936 Leedy trap set, Ludwig Mountain & Lake scene trap set, Leedy Ship Silhouette, early W&A trap set. Showcase of vintage Chinese toms, Temple blocks, Charleston Pedals, Bock-a-da-bocks, Gladstone Cymbals, Rare Duplex afterbeat, Slingerland Duncan Pedal , etc.August 2022 Modern Drummer 37 of the Walberg & Auge Low Boy’s. Then we finally get to the many versions of what we know as the “modern” hi hat and the double hi hat stand. MD : It was a pretty long evolution to finally get there. You don’t really get into the cymbals much, do you? TN : Most of my cymbals are old Zildjian A’s, I have a few K’s. The important thing to me is that I have outfitted every kit with the proper sounding cymbals. I do have some very nice thin 13” A’s on a Leedy kit. I don’t have any 1950’s little bebop Gretsch kits that would need a big old K. I’m not an old K nut. There are so many great drummers who are collecting old K’s, I’ll let them do their thing and spend $3000 a piece on old K’s. All of us drum collector-historians have our niche’. I have tried to focus on (primarily) a specific era of drums and drummers that forged a path in drumming and music. MD : You also have a nice evolution of the bass drum pedals, what can you tell me about that evolution. TN : Along the way there have been some really unique variations on what we now call the bass drum pedal. It started with the overhang pedal, and then that pedal was adapted to also hit a cymbal with an attached “clanger.” Then there was a pedal that did that, but would dampen the cymbal on the backstroke of the pedal. It just kept evolving and getting better. MD : What is the weirdest drum that you have come across? TN: I have a “Barry” collapsable bass drum. That is a set from the 20’s in which everything was self-contained in a case. The bass drum folds out, and it was designed to fit a 3” snare drum that fits inside the bass drum, the heads actually folded up in quarters so they didn’t last long. That’s a pretty weird drumset. MD: That’s amazing because the super compact busking mini kits are very popular again now. TN : There’s not much new under the sun. MD: In a special room adjoining your office you have two special sets that (compared to the rest of the kits) are more “modern.” What can you tell me about the two Slingerland white marine pearl kits in that room. TN : That’s my Buddy and Krupa room. MD: What is the story behind the Buddy kit? TN: That is a 1968 Buddy Rich kit, I bought that kit from Las Vegas music store. The story goes like this. A woman brought this kit in and said that Buddy had given it to her son. Buddy was in town doing two nights in a casino, and Slingerland wanted him to do a clinic at a store for the local kids and drummers. They weren’t going to tear down his kit from the casino gig just to do a clinic and have to bring it right back for that night’s show, so the store supplied another kit for Buddy to do the clinic. It is said that Slingerland insisted that all of their dealers keep a Buddy kit in stock for the instance that Buddy was in town and wanted to do a clinic. Those kits never had snares or cymbals with them, just the kit. My Buddy kit was given to a lucky kid who came to a Vegas drum clinic that Buddy did, or at least that’s what was told to me. The snare is a snare that Slingerland gave to Buddy on his 60th birthday, and rumor has it that Buddy didn’t like it. Steve Smith owned it for a while, and he recently gave it to the museum, along with one of Buddy Rich’s monogrammed shield music stands. I also have a 24” bass drum case from when Buddy’s band was called the Buddy Rich Orchestra (circa 1945-48,) after he left Tommy Dorsey. MD : Tell me about the kit that sits next to the Buddy kit? TN: That is a Krupa STYLE kit. It is a Slingerland 1951 White Marine Pearl Radio King kit with a 24, 13, 16, outfitted with original Radio King calf heads. I bought that kit from the original owner in Florida, and I 1930s Leedy Spiderweb Girl trap set with Leedy elite engraved snare drum, China tom, Charleston pedal. Collection of 1930s painted head trap sets, Leedy Moonlight Silhouette, Spider Web Girl, Walberg & Auge Mountain Stream scene trap kit.Next >