< PreviousModern Drummer November 2022 28 always been there. MD: Tell me about the bell? CP: In the early days of ELP I had a bell that hung above me. I would play the gongs and I would pull the bell hammer with my teeth. I had a small chain hanging down from the bell attached to a mouth guard, and I would give the bell a pull with my mouth as we began to spin the riser. When we were designing the stainless-steel kit, I asked my designer Mike Lowe about getting a new bell. The rst bell was wonderful, but it was a bell that was hanging around a cow’s neck in Switzerland and I convinced the farmer to sell it to me. I wanted a proper bell. I went down to East London to Stepney to one of the very few bell foundries that was still left at the time. They made bells to order and supplied the bells for many of the churches in the London area, I don’t even know if they are still there. My bell was one of eight that they made at the time, and like Big Ben it is slightly cracked. That’s why those bells sound so menacing, because they are cracked. When my bell was made, something went wrong. For some reason it was slightly out of tune. I think they were going to scrap it. I told them that for what I needed it for, no one would ever know it was out of tune, and I bought that bell and began using it. We designed a tting for it and put a safety chain on the tting. We used a bit of Alex KluftNovember 2022 Modern Drummer 29 shing line on the hammer so no one could even see me pulling it, and I played it accordingly. MD : With Asia you stayed with a stainless-steel concert tom kit, but it was made by Premier. I don’t think that I have seen another Premier stainless steel before or since. CP : I think had a Yamaha set brie y at the beginning of Asia, honestly, I can’t remember. The Premier set is a steel set that is chromed, but it is not actually stainless-steel. Stainless-steel and steel sound di erent. The stainless-steel shell has a little more high- mids, the top end is the same, but the high-mids are a little more pronounced, stainless-steel is fuller bodied. The Portodella brothers (who were the founders of the Premier Drum Company) wanted to make a steel kit instead. Roger Horrobin put that set together. I played that kit for several years. That kit was in 10, 12, 13, 14, 16. I can’t recall if the bass drums were 22s or 24s. That was the only time I had the additional tom on the left in front of me. Now I prefer only the two rack toms in front of me. That set was strange, it had to have wooden reinforcement ttings inside the drums so the mounting hardware wouldn’t make the shell buckle. I don’t know why this was done, because it wasn’t necessary for any of my other steel kits. That kit had a Japanese CP logo on the font bass drumheads. MD: During the Black Moon Tour you started playing a Remo kit. What can you tell me about that kit? CP : Remo had sponsored me since I was 21 years old. I love their drumheads, and Remo Belli was a great guy. Remo came to my house one day and asked me to take a look at some new products that he was making. I had gotten along very well with Remo, and I miss him madly. I told him that any time he had some new head designs I was always ready to try them. However, he was talking about drums. He had started a company that was making drum shells out of paper. Basically, they were paper mache. They were pressed paper, that is what the original design of the shells was. Remo was already making the most famous and best drumheads in the world, but he wanted to see if he could get these drums into mainstream music. I had a single headed white set that I used in a band with Keith Emerson called Three. The drums sounded “ok,” but I was using a shallow snare drum and I was playing hard. The bearing edges on the shells started buckling under the tension of the heads and the impact of playing the drums. After a bit I told Remo that I couldn’t play those drums without them making some major changes in them. That didn’t occur, and I moved on and got away from those drums. I don’t think Remo spent enough money and time developing the idea, but all of the original shells had this problem. I’m not sure if they are still making those same shells, if they do, I’m sure this problem has been xed. I still play Remo heads because they are the best heads that are made. In drums, I have always looked for something better. If someone makes something that is better, I want to try it. I was with Axis drum pedals for years because it was a better pedal. Then I tried a Drum Workshop pedal, and it was unreal, so I switched to their pedals, because they were better. MD : Didn’t you have a double headed Remo kit later with ELP? CP: Yes, but the reason that kit was double headed was because it was lled with foam, and I was triggering all of my sounds. Greg Lake pushed me to try to play my own samples with that kit. I managed to get that concept working where you are playing (what appear to be) real drums but you are only using them to trigger samples. Some companies are still working on that idea today. I had those little triggers that you glued on the heads, but they were very inconsistent. I spent every day trying to x the triggers and the samples, it was a nightmare. I recorded with that set, I did a European tour with that set, but I just had to say no more . MD : What sounds were you triggering? CP: I had two samplers with my drum sounds. And those sounds could be switched with the mitigator. Years ago, I did a lot of that ÷ > > >> ÷Modern Drummer November 2022 30 stu , but I got tired of it. It is just so time consuming. I know that electronics have come a long way, but the microphones and the outboard gear today sounds so good that it’s easier (for me) to get a great drum sound through the PA. Call me old fashioned, but that’s what I am doing. MD : Are you still using the Korg Wavedrum? CP : Yes, that is the only piece of electronics that I am still using. I actually started using that on the more recent Asia tours, for the big reverby snare and tambourine sound at the beginning of “Heat of the Moment.” MD: That brings us to the Ludwig kit that you have been playing for quite some time. CP : I went back to Ludwig in 2004, and I was playing the Ludwig Vistalite’s for about three years. They were working ne, but I asked them if they could make stainless steel drums again? We talked about it back and forth for a few years, and nally in 2009 they made plans for the Ludwig 100th Anniversary Stainless Steel drumset. They explained to me that Ronn Dunnett was going to make the shell, and that these shells would be far superior to what they were before. The stainless-steel shells that they made for John Bonham back in the day had a rounded bearing edge just like a wooden shell or like one that you would nd on a metal snare drum. That edge was never very sharp, and the stainless-steel kits would have sounded better with a sharper edge. The Ludwig stainless-steel set that I am playing now is from 2009. It is a double headed set and has almost razor-sharp edges. The edge is slightly rounded so it won’t cut through a head, but it’s a sharp edge and the shells are super thin. When I put a head on these shells it resonates so much more than anything else that I have ever played. These drums are the true sound of stainless-steel drums. I have been playing this set for 13 years, in that time I have refurbished it a bit. I have put on new hoops and gotten some new stands. But I have never had the shells polished, and I’ll tell you why. If you polish the set you have to take o the badges, and I don’t want to ever take of the 100th Anniversary badge. If the badge was to be removed someone could argue that they weren’t actually made in 2009, I know how vintage drum dealers and collectors think. I am doing that for my own piece of mind. Sure, some things have worn out or rusted, and I have changed them, that had to be done. But I never want the shells polished or the badges to be removed. I don’t ever want these drums to be tampered with at all. MD : How many Ludwig Stainless Steel double bass drum kits were even made? CP: I only know of two of them, and I have them both. I keep one of them here at home in the UK, and one in America. Both kits are 13, 14, 16, 18. But the set in America has 24” bass drums. The kit that I have here at home has bass drums that are 18x22, that’s the only di erence between the two sets. When they originally made the 100th Anniversary kits they only made 24” bass drums, I don’t know why. But when they made me the second set, they made the 18x22’s. I must admit, I like having the 22” and the 24” bass drums. All of the stainless-steel sets that were made in 2009 had brass lugs and hoops. When I got my original 2009 kit, my kit had all chrome lugs and hoops. My drums were made earlier, so they hadn’t made the decision for the brass hardware yet. When I had to replace some hardware on that kit, I replaced everything with the brass lugs and rims. My English set has always had the brass lugs and rims. MD : What exact drum sizes and cymbals are you using for this new tour? CP : The Ludwig Stainless Steel Drums 100th Anniversary set: two 16x24 bass drums; 9x13, 10x14, rack toms; 16x16 and 18x18 oor toms; and my Ludwig Carl Palmer Venus piccolo 3.5x14 snare drum. I have started using the Remo Ambassador Triple X heads. My cymbals are all Paiste Signature Series: Carl Palmer Vir2osity Duo 20” Signature Ride, 20” Power Crash, 18” Power Crash, 20” China, 13” hi hats, 12” aux hats, various cup chimes, piggy-back stacks, and splashes. And of course, I have my 33” and 36” gongs. MD: I have to say that working with you on the editing of the footage for this new tour was a pleasure. I am lucky to have had the opportunity to watch all of the outstanding footage and work together with you. I think people will be simply amazed at what we came up with. CP : You had some wonderful ideas in the editing process, and I want to thank you for all of your assistance. MD : Let me speak for the drumming world and say that none of us can wait to see this new tour! Check out Carl’s drummer pro le page, at modern drummer.comDIGITAL DOWNLOAD CODE INSIDE Buy from your favorite retailer check out more at moderndrummer.com The Carmine Appice Library Collection Presents: DIGITAL DOWNLOAD CODE INSIDE Everything you ever wanted to know about Hi Hat Rhythms. In nate patterns to play all styles of music. DIGITAL DOWNLOAD CODE INSIDE DIGITAL DOWNLOAD CODE INSIDEFelipe LaverdeNovember 2022 Modern Drummer 33 STING’S ZACH JONES By Daniel “Ziggy” Laverde W orking with a living legend is a rare opportunity for the majority of drummers. With so many renowned drummers in the world, it is di cult to stand out and be chosen for a massive gig. The pursuit of a dream is always challenging, and for Zach Jones, the path was lled with trial and error. With an extensive history in production and songwriting, Zach has developed his abilities to compose songs for a variety of musicians and bands including his newest album Plastic Soul which is currently on all streaming platforms. Zach began playing the drums at an early age with the intention of making a profession through music. Zach viewed making a living by playing music as quite realistic, contrary to the general consensus. Most people are blind to the fact that everyone fails, but those with perseverance are the ones who succeed. Zach is currently on tour with the legendary Sting, where his drumming is being displayed at one of the highest levels possible for a drummer. Filling the shoes of numerous renowned drummers who came before him can be challenging but being true to oneself and one’s abilities can be the di erence between being distinctive and remaining static. As you read this interview, take note of the number of groups and projects Zach has participated in, and the number of years it took him to reach his current position. Use this to motivate and inspire yourself to reach heights that you may think are impossible. Felipe LaverdeModern Drummer November 2022 34 MD: Zach, let’s begin by discussing your childhood, how you began playing the drums, your in uences, and how you gravitated toward music in general. ZJ : My dad’s a musician and so was his dad. Music runs in the family. I remember my rst real conscious memory of music was hearing my dad play “All My Loving” by The Beatles at a house party. I fell in love with music, and I wanted to be around it and make it. I tried to pick up guitar and I kind of got bored. I tried to pick up piano and that didn’t work. My dad would lead the music at church, and one day after school, I went there with him, and there was a drum set. I just started messing around and he showed me how to play a basic rock beat. It took me a couple of weeks but eventually I got it, and I was hooked, I was o to the races. I was nine years old. Then a friend of ours gave us a little cheap drum set that he had lying around. Once I had a kit at home, I was all in. MD : Have you been surrounded by music your entire life? ZJ: Yeah! My dad is primarily a guitar player and singer, but he plays bass and drums, too. He could play enough to get me started. My dad also played in bands with guys who would show me some stu . I also learned a lot from playing along to records. I always had a tape player or CD player next to my kit in my bedroom. I would just play along with stu and try to gure out what the drummers were doing. MD : I’ve found that a constant theme among drummers I get the pleasure of interviewing is that when they were younger and learning tunes, they tried to gure out why the drummer played a certain way rather than simply memorizing parts. Does this mirror how you learned songs as a kid? ZJ: I think that came a little later for me. Ringo was my rst drum hero, and I loved his playing because of the songs he was playing on. It really wasn’t until a few years later when I started to appreciate the genius of the way that he approaches those songs. I think it’s the kind of playing where when you’re starting out, it’s relatively simple in a technical sense. It’s easy to learn his parts and play them and they sound cool. Later on, when you have a little more facility on the kit and you go back, you sort of think man, he could have played anything. He always made these great and unique musical choices for these legendary songs. It’s kind of impossible to imagine The Beatles songs without the way he chose to approach them on the kit. I think about “In My Life,” “Ticket to Ride,” and “Come Together.” It would’ve been so easy to just play a basic rock beat, but Ringo always found a di erent way in. MD : The Beatles seemed to be very in uential for you at a young age, what other records inspired you? ZJ : McCartney’s MTV: Unplugged. That was my rst real obsession. I had that on a cassette tape, and I listened to that over and over again. Then I started getting more Beatles records. A lot of it was my dad guiding me toward things. I also had a few ‘60s R&B/Soul compilations, so I learned how to play Aretha tunes and I was listening to Bernard Purdie before I even knew it. Stax records were also in uential. Al Jackson Jr. is one of my total drum heroes. When I heard John Bonham, Ginger Baker and Mitch Mitchell I started to get a little more facility on the kit. Stewart Copeland was also big for me. I kind of hit the threshold where I heard his playing and thought “whoa!” That was a whole new door to unlock coordination-wise, especially in the way that he approaches the kit and the way that he placed accents. As I could do more on the kit, I started to be more attracted to drummers who did a little more so that I could nd new things to try and incorporate. I’m sure I played really busy for a while because it’s fun to be able to play new things. Thankfully my dad and other musicians around me who were older would always encourage that stu but also keep me in check and make sure I was still playing the tunes, playing in the pocket, and not getting too out of hand with all the new channels I had. MD : Were you a part of any original bands growing up? ZJ : Yes, I had a band called The Sly Caps. That started when I was probably 11 or 12. It was me and some of my buddies from a community theater group we were a part of growing up. That was my rst band and we Felipe LaverdeNovember 2022 Modern Drummer 35 started by doing a ton of covers. Then, the guys in that band started writing original songs so that was my rst brush with having someone come in with an idea on guitar and vocals and then getting to come up with parts on drums. That’s when I realized that I had a real passion for arranging and later producing. Then that band was part of a reality show on MTV called Made. This was in 2003 and it was about teenagers trying to live their dreams. We had this crazy experience. MTV had a lm crew that followed us around for about six months and we played a ton of gigs. We also recorded an EP and then got to go on tour that summer. It was the days of chat rooms, so people got hip to where we were going to be, and it turned into a bit of an audience. It was also a really cool experience to get in a van and go do gigs. I was only about 16 at the time. MD: When that ended, and you moved to New York City. What was your motivation in moving to the city? ZJ : What happened for me was I moved there when I was 17, right out of high school I moved into a friend’s apartment, and I went to this place called the Drummer’s Collective which is a school in Manhattan. I didn’t really want to go to a regular college and the Collective is basically a trade school for drummers. I got to study there with some great teachers, Kim Plain eld and Peter Retzla , who were huge for me. Going to this school was a way for me to move to New York City without being aimless. The thing I discovered being 18 in New York City, especially if you look like you’re 15 (like I did,) is that you can’t really go anywhere to see music or meet people until you’re 21. I just went back to New Jersey and played in bars and theaters, did all that stu for a while. when I was 20 or 21, I ended up getting o ered a musical theater tour with Annie The Musical. I did that for a year. That was a big accomplishment at the time. We toured all over the U.S. and Canada. I had a blast, but I didn’t want to do theater forever. I wanted to play pop music. I saved up as much as I could, thinking that, “When this is done, I’m going to move to New York City again, and this time I’ll be able to actually get around and meet people.” So that’s what I did. I saved up as much as I could and then when that leg of the tour was over, I moved back to the city into a friend’s apartment and just started going around trying to meet people. MD : How did that turn into the big-time gigs? ZJ : I was hanging at Rockwood Music Hall playing with di erent singer-songwriters, all under the radar sort of stu . A band that I played with called A Great Big World got signed to Epic Records. That was the rst gig I had where I was already working with a group when they got a record deal. They made a record, and I played drums on most of it. Then we got to tour and support that record. The single “Say Something” became a hit sort of overnight on the iTunes charts. That led to a couple of years of heavy touring with those guys. In between doing that record and touring I started a band with a few of my other singer-songwriter friends called Secret Someones. We actually ended up opening for A Great Big World on a whole tour. I was playing both sets on the road, which was super fun. In Secret Someones I was an integral member of the band. I was helping arrange the songs and getting to play the parts that I wanted to play. I was really invested in that band creatively. We got signed to Cherrytree Records and I left A Great Big World. I was a full member of Secret Someones and we got a deal. We made a record for Cherrytree, which I’m still really proud of. The band was Bess Rogers, Lelia Broussard, Hannah Winkler, and myself. The three of them wrote all the tunes. I really loved playing in that band. That is how I rst got involved in “the Sting world” because the person who runs Cherrytree is a guy named Martin Kierszenbaum, who now manages Sting. When we signed with Cherrytree I thought, maybe I’ll get to meet Sting. I was a huge fan of his and a huge Police fan. Martin is very much a guy who likes to get his artists working together on projects, so I got invited to do a session with Sting and that was my rst experience with him. I met him and within minutes we were playing music together, that was really cool. MD : That must have felt very surreal for you. ZJ: It was wild! That was the beginning of intermittent work with him over the course of several years. They would call me occasionally to do a session or a TV appearance. I still had Secret Someones but we all chose to stop doing it for various reasons. After that ended, I went back to New York City doing the freelance life and getting more into producing records. My partner in production is a guy named Oscar Albis Rodriguez. He and I started doing a bunch more production stu for other artists which we still do. I was really focusing on production for a number of years. Every once in a while, I’d get a call from Sting and go do something with him. Then, this year I got the big call to do a tour. It was sort of a long process of getting to know each other. Every time I worked with him I would think, okay, maybe that was it, maybe that’s the last time. MD : Did you ever get starstruck working with Sting? ZJ: In a way there wasn’t really a moment to get starstruck. We said hi, then immediately we were playing music. That sort of evens the playing eld. MD: How was working with Sting in the studio? Was he very set on what he wanted from the drums? ZJ: He’s always been very open minded about what I wanted to play. He’ll let you know if he doesn’t like something that you’re doing but Felipe LaverdeModern Drummer November 2022 36 for the most part, I was free to do my thing. I always really enjoyed that about working with him. I got to play on a couple records of his. I played on a couple of songs on his album with Shaggy. They gave me a little bit of direction, but it was kind of a do your thing mindset. I always looked forward to that call. In a sense, I was nervous but after the rst time we worked together, I would get called again and that reduced the nerves a little bit. MD : Did he play with you during the studio sessions? ZJ : Yes! For me to be on drums and him to be on bass immediately connected us in a di erent way than if we were just trying to sort of small talk. It was really cool to connect on that level. Also, for me it was crazy because I’ve been playing to him for most of my life. I’ve played along to his bass playing a lot. To have him in my ear live was just a trip. MD : I saw the show and I have to say you played awlessly. I also caught on from watching you that you didn’t try to copy Stewart Copeland on the Police songs. Instead brought your own avor to the mix. How did you approach these parts, especially the Police songs that Sting plays live? ZJ: Josh Freese was my immediate predecessor on the gig. So when I was prepping to do the gig, I was mostly looking at recent live shows. I was listening to the way Josh approached the songs and the way Vinnie approached the songs before that. I also watched everybody that he played with in the past. I found some clips of when Keith Carlock, Abe Laboriel Jr., and Manu Katché all had played with Sting. The big takeaway for me from watching all these great drummers play the show is that everybody played it in their own style. I thought, why am I going to try to copy someone else’s thing if everyone on this gig before me obviously had the latitude to play the way that they played. The impression I got through working with him was that I was being encouraged to just be myself and play like myself. I tried to learn the bones of the arrangements based on what they had done most recently. But in terms of the way that I played it, I approached it like, “How do I want to play these songs?” As opposed to, “How do I want to play these drum parts?” C&C Player Date II drums, in Gold Sparkle: 14” x 24” kick 9” x 13” rack 15” x 16” oor 5” x 14” Ludwig Supraphonic (now using a 5” x 14” C&C Black Chrome over Brass) Paiste Masters Series cymbals: 10” Dark Splash 15” Dark Hi-Hats 19” Dark Crash 21” Medium Ride 17” Dark Crash Evans Drumheads: UV1 coated snare batter Hazy 300 snare side UV2 coated tom batters Genera clear tom reso EQ4 coated kick batter EQ3 kick reso w/ hole DW: 5000 series hardware ProMark sticks and mallets : Carter McLean signature model Lowboy Custom Beaters: Felt Daddy Zach’s Gear Felipe LaverdeNovember 2022 Modern Drummer 37 MD : How did you approach Sting’s newer material? ZJ: I learned those a little more verbatim because they hadn’t really played them live that much before. Sting’s played “Every Little Thing She Does is Magic” a million times. But the new songs he’s played maybe three times before I got the gig. So I stuck a little closer to the recordings when we rst did them. Now they have kind of evolved in their own way. MD: Are you able to add your input or does Sting take the reins? ZJ : It’s very much like do your thing until you hear otherwise, not that anyone has ever said that to me but that’s kind of my interpretation of the vibe. When we rst rehearsed together, I just played the tunes the way that I heard them. If something’s not working for him, he’ll say, “don’t play a ll there” or “go half time for this part.” Also, Dominic Miller, who has played guitar with him for 30 something years, is the preeminent expert on Sting music because he’s had a closer relationship to it than anybody. Any time he has input about how something’s feeling I always take that to heart as well. I’m very much encouraged to just be myself and that’s why I’m in the room at the end of the day. Sting is one of those guys who could have whoever he wants on drums so, there’s got to be a reason that I’m there. MD : What’s one of the biggest challenges that you’ve faced since you got the full-time gig with Sting? ZJ : I guess the biggest challenge is internal. It’s hard when you think about the roster of drummers who have done this gig. It can be overwhelming if you let it. I have my moments where I get in my own way psychologically, but I just have to remind myself to be myself and play the way that I play. It’s very tough to follow all of the guys who have been on this gig before me, but I have so much respect for them, and I love the way that every one of them plays. But like I said, when I watch those clips, the thing I always come back to is, Abe sounds like Abe, Josh sounds like Josh. No one’s trying to be anybody else, so why should I? Another challenge is being on the road again for this length of time after not really touring for a long time. That’s just its own thing to get used to. There’re weird sleep schedules and being away from home is hard but it’s just part of the gig. MD: What’s your favorite song to play live? ZJ : “King Of Pain” since the rst time we did it has always been a highlight for me in the set. I love that song and I love playing it. I really like playing the ones that are super simple and I can just play time, sit back and enjoy what’s happening, like “Fields of Gold.” I have that moment to be an audience member a little bit because of how simple it is. “Brand New Day” was a hard one for me to gure out because it’s a shue, but it’s one of those in between shue tempos where I would do more of an up-tempo swing or a slower like 12/8 kind of shue. I really enjoy playing that, but I think I enjoy it partially because it was sort of a challenge for me in the beginning. That particular song is in 4/4 but it’s hard to nd a shue groove that really works at that tempo. I roughly just started doing what Josh was doing and then I found my own way into how to make it feel good for me. I tried to make it groove while not losing the plot. MD: Do you feel like you’ve improved since starting this gig? ZJ : I feel like I’m better at doing this gig than I was when I started doing this gig, that’s for sure. I’m just trying to keep my ears wide open and really be present by listening to the music and listening to what everybody’s doing and trying to make it feel good and support the songs. I think one thing that I’ve improved signi cantly is just pacing myself for a two hour show where there’s not really any breaks. Once we get on stage, we play the whole time so that was Felipe LaverdeNext >